I agree. And also as we are doing GCSE's, whenever we recieve a letter such as 'Work Experience' we had chance to discuss with our whole form about it. I also think that year 7's might feel intimidated by all the older years. They wont have chance to get to know people in their year properly. And this is a vital part of schooling. We are a GCSE year and I think we should be concentrating on them instead of helping and advising younger years. 
While I'm not assuming that I speak for the entirety of pupils, I would see these twenty minutes spent in form as more of an obstacle between spending lessons in company that I enjoy, i.e. that of my own year group.
Hi Cameron
There is so much could say - especially to a student who I rate very highly and I know has much to offer this system in many ways. You are thinking far too narrowly in only wishing to mix with your own year group and closing the door on the potential of friednships and contact with the majority of the school - who you are rather falsely seperated from in our current system.
What I will say is that I wiil ask you in December what you think about things and I am very confident you will feel very differently! All people, including me have had doubts about changing to Vertical Tutoring - but once people have been in the system, or indeed see it in action, that opinion turns very quickly indeed.Â
It's true that my fear of the year groups above me was down to the actions of individuals within the groups, but that's the problem. There will always be individuals like them. I know that if I was part of the vertical tutoring system in year 7 then I would have been mortified.
Unless of course you believe that everyone in the school behaves perfectly towards one another at the best of times, which I doubt. That would be an example of thinking far too narrowly.
Hi Cameron - I know you are quite the reverse of selfish and any younger student who has you in their form next year will be very fortunate indeed. This change gives the most direct benefit to Year 7 and this has been the most powerful aspect we have seen elsewhere - students find the transition easier due to the presence of older students and are less intimidated through meeting them and engaging with them - it should help them gain confidence much more quickly and certainly this is clearly evidenced in what we have seen elsewhere. You really have been lucky in being placed with so many students you knew from primary school - most are place with one or two maximum and this system will remain. We are acutely aware of our duty to care for next Year's Year 7 and by the end of today I will have visited each of the primary schools to speak to their Year 6 students about the change - the seven schools I have been to so far are very excited (not mortified!) and over half the children intend to indicate older friends on their form regarding who they wish to be placed with.
I have been a Head of Year for nine years and a teacher for fifteen so I don't think narrowly regarding the behaviour of students to each other at times! What I do know is that most Fulford students, most of the time act as great role models, great individuals and positive members of the school. The clear evidence from the other schools we have seen is that Vertical Tutoring improves students relationships with each other through increased cross school contact and reduces issues of bullying or other concerns. Our strong base means we are even better placed to enjoy the benefits of this.
Thanks for the contributions - they are sharp, appropriate and thought provoking!
However, it is not the place of year six to be skeptical about this new system. They will have attended the school during the pastoral era for one day by September. That is not even remotely close to the four years me and my year group will have spent in our current form groups by then. In short, year six will not know what they're missing. What's more, I highly doubt that changing from a long-established Vertical Tutoring system to a Pastoral system would bring about the reaction the the reverse most certainly has.
Apologies for sending this in two parts, I learned to my dismay that messages that were too lengthy were not posted, but instead deleted.
Further information here is that the House assembiles will run from a Monday to a Thursday and will follow a general theme. Year assemblies will take place on a Friday and it is in these that GCSE revision/work experience will be covered. The absent of some members from class increases the opportunity for tutors to work with small groups of pupils further and will increase the chance for year groups to mix - if one year is in assemblt then only sixteen students will be in class.
You are absolutely right regarding the 5min registration in the morning. Next years timings of the day will be slightly different with just one twenty minute registration because of exactly this point.
Regards, Cameron MacLeod
I think Mr. Bodey was referring to the fact that there would be fewer students in the room during year assemblies, rather than the fact that there are fewer year groups represented.
Speaking as a form tutor I think that the new system would make much better use of my time than the system we have at present. When year-specific issues arise I can have a much more in-depth and higher quality discussion with the effected students if I were to do this in a small group, tutorial, situation than I could if I were having the discussion with a whole class. It also means that I can draw on the experience of other students in the form who have already been through the same issues.
What you should also consider is that when your form tutor stays with a year form from year 7 through to year 11 they will experience year-specific issues once every 5 years. To use GCSE choices as an example, wouldn't it be more helpful to you if, when going through this process, you knew that your form tutor had done this every year for the past 5 years, not just once half a decade ago?
It also means that around report times rather than having 30 reports to read and comment on, I will have 4 to consider in the same amount of time. This will have the effect that I can do so in a way that gives me a much better idea of how well my tutees are progressing and allows me to reflect a lot more when writing tutor reports than would be possible under the current system.
In short, I can see many reasons why a vertical tutoring system makes much better use of my time than the horizontal system we currently employ.
A further point would be that, whilst every school year is important, key stage 4 is crucial to a child's education. Year 10 and 11 classes require far more attention and guidance than the years in key stage 3, and it is nigh inevitable that these years will be left out more often than not. That is not to say that key stage 3 do not have important concerns, but that these concerns will often be overlooked during form periods.
As for your second point, I am more than pleased with the support and guidance I receive from my current form tutor, and I strongly believe that my tutor's contributions are more than sufficient.
Thirdly, I'm pleased to hear that your work will be easier around report time. I'm glad to hear that this system finally brings some small benefit to some people.
Regards yet again, Cameron MacLeod
Ahh, from reading your previous post I thought you were saying that having fewer year groups in the room would make the tutor more effective. Thank you for clearing that up.
I'm sure that your current tutor is superb and that the support and guidance you have recieved have been excellent but that doesn't detract from my point that any form tutor will be more able to offer even better support to their tutees under the new system.
Please don't misunderstand me, this isn't about making my job easier, it's about making changes that allow me to provide a better service to the students in my form. Having more time to spend on reports is just one of the ways this will be improved under vertical tutoring.
In your last posting you said that if you were in Year 6 you would be mortified - now you are unsurprised that they are intrigued, excited and not skeptical!
I agree it is easier for new students starting secondary school than for current students who are changing. Managing unexpected change to a known situation is difficult and challenging - but a key life skill. We have looked to give plenty of time to students to guide them through this process - half a year in fact for school visits, group formation and student council contributions. Some of the other schools we have visited who have successfully made this change have given the students almost no notice, no choice of who to be with and no chance to contribute to house names, identities and competitions - quite different to the support we are offering our current students. We have also used a mixed (vertical?!) student panel in the interview process for the Directors of Learning (Heads of House).
When it was suggested to all of the students at the four schools we visited about returning to their old system their reaction suggested that the reaction would be far stronger than you may think from the other side of that change - and far stronger than their significant objections to 'going vertical'Â had been.Â
Firstly, to ammend the inaccuracies in your previous argument, I was referring to my experiences in year 7 when I said I would be mortified, but yes, I am unsurprised at the enthusiasm of the year sixes.
This is firstly because they were likely to have been told an even more one-sided version of what we were told; that this was an improvement. I object to the new system as I put more thought into the prospect than most. I have now learned that my capacity to interpret the changes accurately has extended beyond members of staff at this school and at others.
For all we are told we have been given freedom in this, you have given us little or no more choice than the other schools. I would like to firmly state that we are being forced into this as a school.
With regards, Cameron MacLeod
Hi Cameron
I think my posting states clearly that I understood it was your feelings in Year 7.
In terms of a final decision, no that has been made by the leadership, staff and governors of the school after more than eighteen months of consideration and care. We are certainly making this decision and in terms of the choice of whether to do it, you are right that has not been put to the students. It is important, however, the extra time that we have put in to give owenership, reassurance and information to you as students and does set us aside from other schools.
I think you do your fellow students and staff a disservice however on one point you make - other students will have put a great deal of thought into this too and staff most certainly have. In terms of your knowledge of schools elsewhere, you may be better placed to answer this soon.
As ever, Cameron - thanks for the postings.
To be fair, I was wrong to generalise about the staff and students. After all, I'm far from being a lone objector.
As for appreciating the choice you have given us, in comparison to other schools. These choices are irrelevant. House names is a prime example, and I'm sure I've already made my opinion on that clear.
With regards, as ever, Cameron MacLeod
I am glad you know your contributions are appreciated and that is very mcuh the case. I agree there is no school without its students and all I do, and the school does, bears this very much in mind. Your role in the process starts now - if you accept its relevance, if not others will on your behalf and that would be a shame. The huge part that House names will be for the school internally and externally make them far from irrelevant and vital to the school's identity for many years to come.
I'm disappointed that the students were not involved when the decisions to be made bore any effectual consequence, and I cannot agree that naming the houses is an important task. I'd be insulted if I were expected to feel that naming the houses of a system I disagree with is any sort of consolation or significant duty.
With regards, Cameron MacLeod
Thanks for this contribution, Becca. The chance to discuss the work experience does occur in the year system but is less effective than it will be in the Vertical System. The smaller numbers of students (only four in each year) meeting each situation and the knowledge of the students in the years above mean that the tutor will have the time and space to know intimately where everyone is going on their work experience and to discuss any issues. The Year 7's are more likely to be intimidated by older students if they have no contact with them - Vertical Tutoring effectively reduces bullying and increases the confidence and interaction of all students across the school. IN terms of getting to know their year group, they will have plenty of contact with their year group in lessons, trips, breaks and lunchtimes and through natural friendships - I agree this is an imoprtant part of school. The time you have to advise younger students in your twenty minute tutorial will not affect your GCSE success and what you will recieve in advice from sixth form students and your tutor will improve your chances.
People are saying that the tutor's will only have to deal with 4 or 5 people from each year so they'll have more time to deal with you, however this is surely a double edged sword because they have to deal with every other year group too, for example if there is a note regarding year 10 assembly, they are only telling 5 people it applies to. They then have to read out notices for all the other years as well.
Hi Tom
As an example for next year, consider this.
One sixth form support is doing some paired reading with the Year 7's on one table in the room, the Year 8's are having a planner check with another sixth former and talking through their weeks progress, Year 10 are discussing option choices with the Year 9's with another sixth former chairing and the four Year 11 students are chatting to their tutor about their progress, options for Year 12, coursework etc - this is a level of support that could not be achieved in our current system.
Mr Bodey
I see how this would work better than the current system, however I'm not sure how the sixth formers will feel about having to take on more responsibility that the teachers used to have
Hi Tom - good questions and I am enjoying the discussion.
Sixth form students will only need to attend two form sessions a week so this will not be an onerous task for them. They will benefit hugely in UCAS applications from this role and also gain a great deal of personal fulfillment - the sixth form have asked consistently to have more involvment with lower school students and have much to offer in leadership roles, as previously stated.
In terms of more work than tutors do now, thats probably unfair to a number of staff but you do highlight the inefficiency/inconsistency of our current tutor periods and the extra benefit that we will get from our new model. The tutor time should become a far more useful and focussed part of your day whilst still widening your opportunity for social interaction within and outside of your year group.
According to what the sixth formers I have spoken to have said, they do not want the extra responsibility of dealing with the years below them. Also, you stated that the sixth formers need only to attend 2 sessions every week, which disproves your previous example of the sixth formers helping out with other years.
Hi Tom
Fair points to some degree. All student voice activities in recent years have consistently indicated that the sixth form wish to see a greater involvment with lower school - and in addition to this the quaity of our students gives us a great start here. If some sixth formers don't initially wish to be part of this, then their reservations will be worked through in the same way as those in lower school students have been - explaination of the rationale, encouragement of the mutual benefits and a knowledge of the system for next year. The time they are helping is limited to the two tutor sessions a week - giving each lower school tutpr group two or three sixth form support each day (I think this answers your last point). The benefits of this to the older students are clear in terms of future job and UCAS applications in addition to the good that volunteering does to anyone's character and outlook.Â
A random thought just occured to me: whilst everyone's worried about the Year 7s feeling intimidated they've forgotten about the Year 10s and 11s who are intimidated by the younger, more hyperactive years...or maybe that's just me.
Also, the relationship between, for example, a sixth former and a teacher, will differ dramatically to that of a Year 7 and a teacher; there might be an underlying sense of inequality amongst the members of each form.
In my primary school we had houses and we had sports days and competitions and I have to say it did not help any of the years to mix together and become friends. Im not trying to be narrow-minded here but i just dont see how this is going to work to bring the older and younger years together and I think it would be unwise to assume that in every situation the new system is employed, socialising between year groups improves.
Hi Laura
Your primary schools approach - just using Houses identity for events - doesn't create the same opportunity and culture for the school to mix in the way we want to achieve. Through daily contact and mixed form groups, there will be planned and proper contact between year groups that will become increasingly natural in time.
We are certainly not unwise enough to make any assumptions about something as important as this - we have been reseraching this change since January 2007 and have repeatedly been to visit five schools who use this structure to learn what we need. In every single one of these contrasting schools 'socialising between the year groups' has improved significantly. Given the quality of students we have at Fulford, I am sure that this will be even more the case here.
yeah, wenlock jefferson derwent and ebor.
i agree, no one mixed, they just stuck to their year.
you might change your mind though.
Perhaps it's the 'loser' part of my psyche talking, but how can competitions be perceived as a positive outcome, when there is already too much competition in the classroom?
(this isn't a rhetorical question; feel free to answer)
I agree with Georgia, and if one of the teachers was a member of a certain house they may favorite pupils of the same house.
Unless, teachers aren't aloud to give house points to their own house...
As teachers are adults and proffesionals, it is quite acceptable to assume that they will try to remain as neutral as possible. Just because in Harry Potter Snape favours slytherin, doesn't mean that all teachers are going to do it!
Real                                                            Imaginary
Fulford                                                         Hogwarts
The vertical tutoring scheme does have positives and I do think it is a good idea for the school, but when I was told we would have to choose 5 friends for a form, I knew there would be arguements between friendship groups - and that's what did happen. Quite a lot of people that I know ended up falling out or having something happen when we all had to write down 5 names. I feel that maybe we should have just had houses? Instead of splitting up the forms too - because personally I think that the whole 'House' idea is great but i'm just unhappy about having to loose my form after so long. And I know this has been spoke about often enough, but I want to make my point clear.
The house system is flawed, and it always will be.
I might be willing to put up with it for 20 minutes a day but it should DEFINATELY NOT have sixth form involved; the two separate sections of the school are too different and too juxtaposed. It's like putting an adult and a baby on a talk show (no offense to the younger years, it's just to get the idea)
I think this indicates more what you will get out of this next year, Joe. Nothing magical happens to you over the summer that makes you completely different from the lower school pupils and 'superiour' ot them
Fulford Sixth formers have consistently indicated that they don't want to be so seperate from the lower school and want to play a role within it - they certainly have plenty to offer and you will next year. Amy Muckersie and Tom Adams who also visited Selby as sixth formers went very skeptical and came back very positive about the roles sixth form can play - find them for a conversation - they certainly would not regard it as 'adult and baby' if you approached them!
All Year 7 students are far from babys - and I can think of many members of our year group who would have benefited from contact and support from a sixth former in the early part of their time at Fulford to help them gain in confidence and give them the necessary attention whilst settling in. I am sure you can think of some too.
The maturity of lower school students at Fulford School is very high and the leadership and advice they will offer at every level is key. To dismiss any younger students as 'baby' whilst assuming all older students deserve the tag of 'adult' is a real misconception.
Flawed? Well each of the six schools we have visited has provided evidence very different to this - happy, secure environments with the House structure firmly at the centre of that. Its our job to create the same and better here.
It works on the basis that every single person does as they are supposed to, and everyone hopes they do. I think it's great that you'll be able to help lower school and vice versa, but there will always be problems. Those problems are what everyone is worried about.
- Some year 7's will be a little upset by the big 6ft monsters of year 11's, but some will like it.
- People won't feel that they're not really part of anything, others will feel they're in a more mixed environment
- Some higher-school students will feel they have no reason to get involved people from the lower school, others will see it as another opportuinity to help